Core Unit Tools #03: AccountAble for MakerDAO Teams | March 16, 16:00 UTC

Core Unit Tools #03: AccountAble for MakerDAO Teams | March 16, 17:00 UTC

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Meeting ID: 846 2681 7068


Intro with @Davidutro.
Presentation by Dennis Lund from AccountAble
Open Q&A

Information About AccountAble


Core Unit Tools #03: AccountAble

March 16th, 2021


  • 00:00: Intro with David Utrobin
  • 01:58: AccountAble with Dennis Lund



David Utrobin

Agenda and Preamble


  • Welcome to March 16th MakerDAO Community Call. Today’s Community Call was actually converted to a community call that’s part of a larger series that we’ve been running at MakerDAO for the last couple of months, the Core Unit Tools series. Core Units need basic services, basic tools. We’re putting together the Core Unit Tools series to cover the different options, the different interesting offerings that are available to Core Units.
  • Today we have Dennis Lund from AccountAble.
  • For other episodes of Core Unit Tools, please check the forum.


Dennis Lund from AccountAble


10:34 — David Utrobin: There’s this idea of full versus limited service. As a Core Unit you can either completely rely on your entity to do all your payroll, all your expenses, get whatever payment cards you need through your entity, and all that goes through that 10% service charge. But then I’m curious about what your offerings are for the limited service. Let’s say a Core Unit decides to incorporate ourselves, so we’re using our own entity and, for example, we’re using Opolis for payroll… And really the only thing we’re looking for is help with accounting, by extension taxes, and Dai-to-fiat conversion. What options are on the limited side rather than the full service side?

14:01 — David Utrobin: Assuming a full service setup through AccountAble, what is the requirement for paying out freelancers that work part-time in Dai? Do they have to go through the whole KYC or can they be on their own and can we just independently pay them with Dai and let them worry about their own side of taxes and stuff?

15:36 — Payton Rose: Let’s say you’re just a contributor here to Maker, so maybe you’re working for three or four different Core Units. Does that mess any of the extra steps for the user?

15:57 — Frank Cruz: You said you’ve been doing this for the Maker Foundation. Hypothetically, imagine someone’s starting a Core Unit for selling t-shirts, and they need to go to an event, and the event organizer says “Hey, I need you to fill out this form”, and you need to put an organization with the person. Would the person then put “Core Unit T-Shirts” or would they put the name of AccountAble as the entity? Or would they put MakerDAO as the entity that’s responsible for anything that goes wrong at the meetup?

17:02 — Frank Cruz: You mentioned you’ve been doing this already for the Foundation.

17:48 — Frank Cruz: In the US, as an example, at the beginning of the year you would send a W-2 to every Core Unit employee?

18:48 — Frank Cruz: In one of your slides you showed where the community pays out to the Core Unit employee, and you mentioned that you could either use a multisig or you can go directly from your wallet to AccountAble — but in the US that would incur a taxable event. You’re saying that a multisig would be a better way…

19:46 — ?: What kind of transparency do your clients expect? Have you had any particularly weird requests to make sure that all of your paperwork is visible to everyone or are they kind of standard across all the clients?

21:02 — David Utrobin: In which cases would you say that it makes sense to actually incorporate as a Core Unit rather than use you directly?

21:33 — Frank Cruz: What are some of the downsides here? Hypothetically AccountAble goes bankrupt or the Philippines comes in and it’s like “Ok, we can’t have companies that do business in crypto anymore”. What are some of those downsides? How would the employers of these Core Units get paid if things do fall apart?

22:53 — Frank Cruz: Just the whole experience of getting your Dai converted to euros or dollars… How long would it take for an employee of a Core Unit to get paid?

23:48 — David Utrobin: To continue on that, let’s say that we get approved in the May cycle and we get our Dai to a multisig end of May, and we send that Dai to AccountAble… Is it like a two-week thing, a three-week thing…?

25:14 — Nadia Alvarez: If I receive the budget for salaries and everything else in my multisig and then I send it to you to pay for salaries, what happened with the taxes when I received that budget in my multisig? Because I’m not a company, I’m an individual person who’s receiving a bunch of money from a Dao. What is the procedure there?

26:19 — David Utrobin: You mentioned a little while ago about a deposit requirement for Core Units. I’m curious about what the deposit requirement is and all that.

27:48 — David Utrobin: The only Core Unit budget proposal that I saw that was asking for three months upfront was the Smart Contract team — and in the proposal they said they’d be keeping it in the mandated actor multisig just as backup. I’m curious how Core Unit budgets will account for deposit requirements like that, specially for salaries because that’s the bulk of most Core Unit expenses.

29:01 — David Utrobin: What’s the process if somebody wants to onboard or consult you…? What are the steps?

29:54 — David Utrobin: Let’s say a Core Unit wasn’t passed through governance yet, but maybe they saw a positive result in the first week’s poll and they’re beginning to figure out if they’re going to incorporate and they’re starting to get set up in anticipation of getting passed… What would be the best thing for a Facilitator to do? Would it be to reach out to you at the beginning of that governance cycle or do you recommend even earlier than that?

31:32 — Frank Cruz: How does it work if, say, David’s Core Unit hires a freelancer in Michigan, and that freelancer is only going to do a one-time job? David has to pay them 2000 Dai. How long would that artist have to wait to get a payment?

32:51 — Frank Cruz: And does that artist need to provide their identification because you’re going to have to 10-99 them?

33:36 — David Utrobin: What are the most common questions that you’ve had from Core Units that you’ve worked with so far?

37:19 — Frank Cruz: Speaking of Google subscriptions, can you describe the process of invoicing from vendors?

39:37 — Frank Cruz: If the Smart Contract team is doing an audit with Gauntlet, and they build it for US$100000, you would need an approval. There’s like a threshold of the amount of the invoice to be approved by the Core Unit Facilitator…

40:54 — Free discussion

44:36 — David Utrobin: Sounds like AccountAble is going to be really useful for relatively small Core Units because the way that you describe all the responsibilities that accompany incoporation sounds like quite a lot, specially the disolving part…

45:25 — David Utrobin: I know you mentioned there’s a monthly financial report that you produce for the client. Besides that monthly one, what other things should the client expect to receive from your firm?

47:37 — Frank Cruz: How do you deal with turning Dai into US dollars or euros? Do you have cut a deal with a brokerage company that allows you not to suffer any slippage?

49:34 — Nadia Alvarez: I guess if the employee has a salary of US$10000, you will have to pay, Dennis, whatever the conversion rate is at the date he’s converting the Dai into dollars.

51:34 — Nadia Alvarez: Going to Frank’s question about Dai losing the peg, if one Dai is under one dollar and at the moment you negotiate the conversion rate with the broker, he will give you an unexpected price for the budget I have for the salary. So I have to have an extra budget just in case that happens because I will have to pay you more Dai so the employee at the end could get the 10000 Dai, just in case the peg is broken.

52:30 — Frank Cruz: Would it be possible that MakerDAo as an entire protocol gets a discount one day? Right now you’re charging 10%, but can we get that down to 8%, 5% if we give you a lot of business and everything runs smoothly? Is that maybe something you can see happening over the next 24 months?

53:29 — Free discussion

Closing Comment

David Utrobin


  • Thank you so much, Dennis, for presenting AccountAble to us. I definitely look forward to see more of you around and I hope people take advantage of your service.


  • @blimpa produced this summary.
  • Everyone who spoke and presented on the call, listed in the headers.
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