Maker Vault Compensation Updates and Status

It is hard for everybody. Without people like MakerMan nobody would care and you’d have zero chance to see your collateral again

Greatly appreciate @MakerMan’s time on this!!

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What’s your vault number?

And you are who ?

It’s my understanding Makerman is working on this

Hi All,

I’m working with MakerMan as part of the compensation group, and wanted to provide a status update.

Currently, we are making final formatting revisions to the compensation plan document, and will be posting it to the forum for review soon. After that, we will be presenting the plan on the Thursday governance call (either this week or next depending on how quickly we finish final revisions).

Thanks everyone for your patience!

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Thank you everyone for patience. I am in the middle of my 64hr+ work week (one on, one off). Things have been hectic for me so my time is going to become more limited and as a group we decided to elect @monet-supply as the new compensation project lead.

Don’t worry, god willing I won’t be going anywhere but I wanted to step back from being the ‘self appointed’ lead on this trying to drive everything to step back somewhat and let someone else elected by the group to drive the train for everyone.

Hopeful we will be moving what seems to be a very heavy burden sooner rather than later. I looked at some of the discussion from the last CC on the topic of incentivizing people to work within the protocol. @rich.brown I know is pretty adamant that we don’t get this until we can figure out the details of compensating people for effort.

There are many people that step up here because we have an idea we might be able to make a better world by making a better ‘bank’ but eventually people run out of gas, because they are paying for their own gas (the idea of making time to literally ‘give away’ takes something from somewhere). Rich put it well - people need to eat - but go further than this. If governance doesn’t figure out HOW to compensate people we are always going to get people leaving because they simply are unable to sustain effort with nothing coming back.

I don’t see our MKR whales offering to create some new initiatives backed by some financing on their own (maybe we really don’t want this anyway) so the best we can hope for is to offer them via governance mechanics to provide that financing. Insert plug for MIP14.

We are going to need a really good auditor just to check my work. I might be good, but like everyone am fallible and so far no-one has really stepped up who is equipped and experienced to tackle the auditing for this compensation proposal should it pass governance polls/votes.

Everyone wants a decentralized this that or the other thing. My analysis on this subject suggests you can pick any job in a centralized system and it will cost 2-3x in a decentralized one. This is mostly due to additional checks and balances required to do this in a decentralized manner. Look at POW with BTC. Solves the distributed ledger problem at a pretty high computational/energy cost. I believe the same will be true generally of decentralized systems.

Unfortunately we can try to run at these things but in the end a high degree of patience, and yes work and time will be required to reach the goals we seek. We are also going to fail miserably, in costly ways, often. I don’t think we can avoid this, but we can at least be preparred for these results.

I think people understand this. Particularly our vault owners and those in this system. I am a vault holder. I really love I don’t need permission to drop collateral into the system and mint some cash. It is my job to watch my liquidation point and try not to be overly aggressive unlike our standard financial systems that lever right to the edge in centralized ways, with centralized administrators. There is so much work to do it is daunting. The idea we could break this so that everyone in this system loses everything, scary. But this is what makes building a better world so exciting. We might not be able to change the BS existing systems, but what we might be able to do is transform them from the inside out.

It is why I am here (and I think many others) because I believe if I want a better system for myself I need to offer what I have got. We have to do this for ourselves, no one except you , me all of us can make this happen. I believe in time not just I will be rewarded, but perhaps everyone on the planet. I want to urge people who read this. I know many of you here got wiped out and are feeling left out. You aren’t. I stand and will always stand here for the bigger group of people, gently and politely nudging and sometimes pounding the table to move this system in the directions I think are best for the entire community and not just one part of it. It is my hope that as long as I have breath I will be able to contribute positively to this space. It is also my hope that more people join computer keyboards with minds and similar goals to not just expect something, and someone else to do it, But that (as Rich says) you will join US in making Maker better for all of us. The beauty of this project is that there is so much to do, I think there literally is a place for everyone with energy, talent and above all the desire to contribute. I think in time we will solve the compensation issues - not just for those who got caught in BT - but for everyone who contributed and contributes positively to this project.

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As always you are very well appreciated for your endless efforts @MakerMan. Even giving the time and effort to compose everything you’ve said. May good blessings come to you kind sir. You’re one of the few people that make this world a better place. You have my support sir.

I finally got to read the whole report and make a couple annotations on the side. As mentioned before, it’s very well done, @MakerMan.

I would like to make it more readable for the general public? I imagine a lot of the MKR holders / community in general don’t have the technical skills to fully understand it (I’m not myself at 100%). Not sure if this would be useful at all. Maybe @monet-supply can give me some input here.

For example:

  • is it useful to have this report in a more “dynamic” format instead of PDF (something like a GoogleDocs or Gitbook)? I think having the possibility to comment, ask questions, and propose improvements to it would be quite useful.
  • page 2:
    • I would make the legend a little bit clearer. Maybe a link to the concepts would be good too.
    • This one might be an overkill but I find it useful in general. I would use one vault (or example) and link the concepts to the numbers.

Or maybe all this belongs somewhere else.

Anyway, happy to help.

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Thanks @MakerMan for all your work so far and you persistence.

Thanks juanjuan for the nice comments. I have not forgotten you and once governance gets us to a point of decision I can take the data I have and roll out vault by vault compensation I may hit you up for some double checking of my work with the spreadsheet data.

Actually I would be happy to have someone take the document and do an edit. I actually have this in LibreEditor or Writer so can punch it out however if you would like to take a stab at editing to make it easier for people to read. This was a report that I was trying to get out in a pretty advanced time frame and keep it reasonably concise so yeah it could use an editing cycle. I can e-mail you a copy or probably better we google docs it? At some point if I can ever get my hands on an accurate history of ALL vaults I really want to re-do this whole analysis ON ALL vaults but this is a much larger project that requires key elements I don’t have in place yet.

I think it is why I have stayed away from working on that. It was probably the best I was going to do with the constraints I was working under and I didn’t see the value of returning to that because the compensation report probably was going to be redone anyway and in truth a better liquidation and vault status report system is something that ‘should’ come under Maker governance perview ala MIP13 and compensation for it via MIP14 (or something like it).

IF I can raise more funds and then enlist some talent making a really good Maker Analytics site would be of use. First goal is a really solid live analysis of vaults vault actions etc. I see @hexonaut working on a start with mkranalytics.com (a plug for your site Sam :smiley: ) so he with his team might just get together what I am thinking before I can even get a start on it.

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I forgot about this thread. Life got in the way. I thought it fizzled out.

@MakerMan @monet-supply
It’s good to hear that something is coming together for a compensation plan.

I don’t know the plan’s details, but it seems like it’s near done. I would have considered allocating a portion of future SF revenue for compensation. Maybe other ways are better? No idea.

Years down the road, I think the Black Thursday event will ultimately be an event we can proudly point to as a show of strength. It’s in our history, it happened, and it shows that incentives within MakerDAO are properly aligned.
Poor governance -> Governors foot the bill

There’s something important to consider with regards to compensation though. There may be great arguments for not compensating. It was the risk they took. They knew going in. Sucks to suck.

It does suck to suck though… I’m sure a lot of people are salty about what happened. I would be. When we try pointing to this event, what’s stopping them from producing counter critiques?

It doesn’t cost us that much to do right by them. It can be a one-time pass, like the DAO hack. There weren’t any more ETH forks.

What do we gain though? We have that many fewer people (rightfully?) upset with us. I think it will be a good look for Maker to eat this.

We vote on it like any other poll!

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Thanks for the plug :slight_smile:

I’ll be adding liquidation auction info soon if that helps you. This will include collateral liquidated, collateral sold, tab amount, amount recovered and net revenue / losses. Happy to add any additional stats that may be relevant too.

Can’t really give a timeline as I’m blocked on something out of my control at the moment, but we are getting close.

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You know honestly if governance goes for a plan that has a price tag literally instead of selling MKR governance could approve a new DSR deposit facility that has a fixed term and pays a fixed rate of interest to cover it. Then just build something like a secondary surplus out of the primary one (instead of buying bakc MKR) to pay back the bond holders at term with the accumulated SF or MKR flop then to make up the difference.

Setting the rate and seeing if enough DAI depositors would buy would be interesting.

Right now interest on a 4% 1 yr 2.5M DAI bond (100K DAI interest here if I have my math right) could be covered by the current surplus vs. selling MKR. Would people deposit DAI to earn 4% if they had to lock it for a year? Is this a good thing to do? Realize since this bond is basically going to pay out on a compensation plan it effectively only sops up liquidity temporairly. Do MKR holders benefit here by not having to deal with further dilution?

I think in time debates will grow on creating a secondary surplus operational account that also serves as a warchest with either stablecoin assets, or better assets anticorrelated with markets.

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A whole ton of stuff I had Twicky add.

block on the kick/tend, block on dent, block on deal. number of unique bidders, number of bids, tx costs for the winner and everyone else. Pull the uniswap and OSM price feeds at the time of all of these events. :wink:

Just a few things I had in my list @hexonaut But I am looking at more general vault analytics - not just the liquidations. Perhaps as you get things together I might take what you have at the time and do a mock up of what I would like to see and feed it back to you and your team. :smiley:

Literally we don’t want to just see the live data, we want to see ALL the analytics presented as a time sequence so we can track ‘changes’ not just see the state of the system generally at the time we look.

In principle since this all lives on-chain in a linear fashion one could just allow the user to put in a block or time and see ‘the state of the analytics’. If you allowed a user to download a snapshot of whatever they were looking at then it would be easy to fish out changes and to do analytic checkpoints one could make time graphs of. One thing I have always wanted to see was either @cyrus or @vishesh vault liquidation state 2d graphs % liquidated at collateral price against collateral value and to watch this change over time with the price of the collateral (ETH in the case I am thinking).

I liken this to another idea I had of looking at bid/ask in an exchange and when the price moves (up or down) due to a large buy or sell checking how well the book say 1hr to 5min previous was an accurate representation of market depth. Same thing is true of ETH vaults liquidation points and how much DAI was actually burned vs. what we expected would be burned in the case of a collateral price down turn.

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20200619_1107EST Update

The Compensation group is just about done with the Compensation Plan document. The goal is to post the Compensation Plan document in its own forum thread by Monday for review and comment by the community before formal presentation during Thursday CC 6/25/2020 by @monet-supply and @MakerMan

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20200619_2300 EST Update

The Compensation Plan has been posted for community review here.

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  • Based on initial analysis, it looks like the Black Thursday period (3/12/2020 12:00 to 3/13/2020 13:40, ETH auctions 763-4324) covers the vast majority of users who lost funds, and covers substantially all of the zero bid auctions as well as the worst of the Black Thursday price falls and gas spikes

my vault is 392(not in range) should i hope for something?

I need to double check, but it looks like your vault was liquidated at 3/13/20 0:02 UTC, so you would be within the time range

Numbers you were referencing (763-4324) refer to auction numbers rather than vault numbers

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392 you are in the BT class with auctions 3180, 3181, 3182 109ETH auctioned for 0 ETH returned.

I will remind people just look at defiexplore.com/cdp/NNNN and then drill down into the liquidation history if you are in the 763-4324 range of auctions (liquidations via defiexplore.com/liquidations/XXXX) you are already in the class. Governance will decide the conditions for who gets how much compensation.

Thank you for that .