[Signal Request] Adjusting ttl(bid-duration) on flap-auctions

I am not following why lowering the ttl would help increase participation or price discovery? If bidders are very price sensitive, won’t they just participate closer to the end of the auction?

no - the end of the auction is ttl after the last bid.

ok, will increase it by 2 more weeks

1 Like

Ah understood - so currently we wait 60 minutes after the final bid has been placed. Is that correct?

exactly. so if you need to commit yourself to 60 minutes of price volatility, this certainly leads to lower bids than on 30 minutes.

hm that seems nonsensical at first glace which makes me think I’m missing something, is there any insight into why we set the parameter to be 60m in the first place?

EDIT: I just remembered, 0 bids…

I’d tentatively agree that it’s a good parameter change, but I’d like to know how quickly we can get the liq2.0 framework for flaps, that seems to be the only real solution to this trade-off matrix.


oh, liq2.0 would be totally preferable. but I believe @Protocol-Engineering has some more urgent stuff to work on right now.

1 Like

Why can’t the answer as to concern about zero/low bids be that the auction has either a stated or unstated minimum amount of MKR that if it is not hit the auction fails and the kick fee is refunded and some DAI amount is given to those that bid? Then heck you could set the ttl to 10 minutes. Could set it in automated parameters that when say an auction for 30,000 DAI goes up an oracle checks current price of MKR and sets the minimum at 50% of that, so say if MKR is $3,000, on that 30,000 DAI auction if the high bid is not at least 5 MKR - $15,000 - the auction fails.

would need adjustments to the flap auctions. engineering capacity is a sparce good these days. and just a detour from getting to clap (liquidations 2.0)

it is not like we see a lot of participants but we also haven’t seen a single successful 0-bid. that’s the reason I want to propose the optimization of the current config.

1 Like

Got it, misunderstood that this is a band-aid before planned cooler tech is implemented.

1 Like

Personally, I’m not sure there’s a huge difference in practice between 30 min and 60 min. Crypto markets can turn on a dime, and most arb opportunities disappear within a few blocks. OTOH flaps are probably the least dangerous auction type from a zero bid perspective–it sucks for MKR holders if they get less burn, but it doesn’t put the system in debt or hurt Vault users or DAI holders. So there’s likely very little additional risk from 30 min as opposed to 60 min. If we want to try 30 min, IMO why not, but as others have pointed out the real solution is designing and implementing a better mechanism, so I’d rather not spend too much time trying to hyper-optimize Flapper parameters.


just closed the poll, will prepare the onchain poll now as - while we have a lot of people abstaining - there is a majority for cutting down the ttl to 30 minutes.

will update here as soon as the poll is onchain - thanks everybody for participating here!

1 Like

This is on-chain now, here.


Update: the proposed change is included in todays Exec - please help passing it quickly (aka not two weeks).

Update: the exec I mentioned is not containing the complete change for increasing the DC of RWA-002 and has been taken out of the voting portal.

I will update here as soon as the official spell for this change is online.

Thanks everybody

here it is - please help making this pass in less then 2 weeks :wink:

1 Like

final update: exec has been scheduled, we will have new flap parameters at 2021-07-25T23:56:00Z.

thanks everybody for participating

Interesting. The low bid issue can be quite prevalent if there’s not enough competition for these auctions. And since there’s no limiter we can see a flood of auctions from liquidations. And there’s less time now for humans to intervene.

We’ll have to see how it works out.

lowering tau would of been another auction so that we have fixed length auctions, that means at some point auction participants will have the chance to make bids with less exposure to price volatility.

We already had auctions with 30 minutes (but with 10k DAI I believe). Worked quite good

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.